“Pleasure and pain, the self, and the world are self-created; only this is true, anything else is wrong.” As sightless wanderers dispute such views, stabbing each other with pointed words, the Buddha notes how such debaters sink down midway without reaching the firm ground.

UD 6.5  Dutiya nānātitthiya sutta - The Various Sectarians (Second)

Evaṁ me sutaṁ ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā sāvatthiyaṁ viharati jetavane anāthapiṇḍikassa ārāme. Tena kho pana samayena sambahulā nānātitthiyasamaṇabrāhmaṇaparibbājakā sāvatthiyaṁ paṭivasanti nānādiṭṭhikā nānākhantikā nānārucikā nānādiṭṭhinissayanissitā.

Thus have I heard—At one time, the Blessed One was dwelling at Sāvatthi, in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s Park. Now at that time, a number of ascetics, brahmins, and wanderers of various sects were living in Sāvatthi. They had different views, different beliefs, different preferences, and were attached to a variety of grounds for views.

Santeke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “sassato attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

There were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “The self and the world are |eternal::everlasting [sassata]|; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santi paneke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “asassato attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

And there were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “The self and the world are |not eternal::not endless [asassata]|; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santeke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “sassato ca asassato ca attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

There were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “The self and the world are both eternal and not eternal; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santi paneke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “neva sassato nāsassato attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

And there were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “The self and the world are neither eternal nor not eternal; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santeke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “sayaṅkato attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

There were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “The self and the world are self-created; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santi paneke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “paraṅkato attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

And there were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “The self and the world are created by another; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santeke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “sayaṅkato ca paraṅkato ca attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

There were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “The self and the world are both self-created and created by another; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santi paneke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “asayaṅkāro aparaṅkāro adhiccasamuppanno attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

And there were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “The self and the world are neither self-created nor created by another, but arise by chance; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santeke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “sassataṁ sukhadukkhaṁ attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

There were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “|Pleasure and pain::ease and discomfort, happiness and sorrow [sukhadukkha]|, the self, and the world are eternal; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santi paneke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “asassataṁ sukhadukkhaṁ attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

And there were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “Pleasure and pain, the self, and the world are not eternal; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santeke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “sassatañca asassatañca sukhadukkhaṁ attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

There were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “Pleasure and pain, the self, and the world are both eternal and not eternal; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santi paneke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “neva sassataṁ nāsassataṁ sukhadukkhaṁ attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

And there were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “Pleasure and pain, the self, and the world are neither eternal nor not eternal; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santeke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “sayaṅkataṁ sukhadukkhaṁ attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

There were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “Pleasure and pain, the self, and the world are self-created; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santi paneke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “paraṅkataṁ sukhadukkhaṁ attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

And there were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “Pleasure and pain, the self, and the world are created by another; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santeke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “sayaṅkatañca paraṅkatañca sukhadukkhaṁ attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

There were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “Pleasure and pain, the self, and the world are both self-created and created by another; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Santi paneke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: “asayaṅkāraṁ aparaṅkāraṁ adhiccasamuppannaṁ sukhadukkhaṁ attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan”ti.

And there were some ascetics and brahmins who were of this argument, this view: “Pleasure and pain, the self, and the world are neither self-created nor created by another, but arise by chance; only this is true, anything else is wrong.”

Te bhaṇḍanajātā kalahajātā vivādāpannā aññamaññaṁ mukhasattīhi vitudantā viharanti: “ediso dhammo, nediso dhammo; nediso dhammo, ediso dhammo”ti.

They lived blaming, quarreling, and disputing with one another, stabbing each other with pointed words, saying: “The Dhamma is like this, the Dhamma is not like that; the Dhamma is not like this, the Dhamma is like that.”

Atha kho sambahulā bhikkhū pubbaṇhasamayaṁ nivāsetvā pattacīvaramādāya sāvatthiṁ piṇḍāya pāvisiṁsu. Sāvatthiyaṁ piṇḍāya caritvā pacchābhattaṁ piṇḍapātapaṭikkantā yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu. Ekamantaṁ nisinnā kho te bhikkhū bhagavantaṁ etadavocuṁ:

Then several bhikkhus, having dressed early in the morning and taking their alms bowls and outer robes, entered Sāvatthi for alms. Then, having wandered for alms in Sāvatthi, those bhikkhus, after their meal and having returned from their alms round, approached the Blessed One. Having drawn near, they paid homage to the Blessed One and sat down to one side. As they were seated thus, they said to the Blessed One:

“Idha, bhante, sambahulā nānātitthiyasamaṇabrāhmaṇaparibbājakā sāvatthiyaṁ paṭivasanti nānādiṭṭhikā nānākhantikā nānārucikā nānādiṭṭhinissayanissitā.

“Here, venerable sir, a number of ascetics, brahmins, and wanderers of various sects are living in Sāvatthi. They have different views, different beliefs, different preferences, and are attached to a variety of grounds for views.

Santeke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: ‘sassato attā ca loko ca, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’ti …pe… te bhaṇḍanajātā kalahajātā vivādāpannā aññamaññaṁ mukhasattīhi vitudantā viharanti: ‘ediso dhammo, nediso dhammo; nediso dhammo, ediso dhammo’”ti.

There are some ascetics and brahmins who are of this argument, this view: ‘The self and the world are eternal; only this is true, anything else is wrong.’ … They live blaming, quarreling, and disputing with one another, stabbing each other with pointed words, saying: ‘The Dhamma is like this, the Dhamma is not like that; the Dhamma is not like this, the Dhamma is like that.’”

“Aññatitthiyā, bhikkhave, paribbājakā andhā acakkhukā; atthaṁ na jānanti anatthaṁ na jānanti, dhammaṁ na jānanti adhammaṁ na jānanti. Te atthaṁ ajānantā anatthaṁ ajānantā, dhammaṁ ajānantā adhammaṁ ajānantā bhaṇḍanajātā kalahajātā vivādāpannā aññamaññaṁ mukhasattīhi vitudantā viharanti: ‘ediso dhammo, nediso dhammo; nediso dhammo, ediso dhammo’”ti.

“Wanderers of other sects, bhikkhus, are blind and without vision. They do not know what is beneficial, they do not know what is harmful; they do not know the Dhamma, they do not know what is not the Dhamma. Not knowing what is beneficial, not knowing what is harmful, not knowing the Dhamma, not knowing what is not the Dhamma, they live blaming, quarreling, and disputing with one another, stabbing each other with pointed words, saying: ‘The Dhamma is like this, the Dhamma is not like that; the Dhamma is not like this, the Dhamma is like that.’”

Atha kho bhagavā etamatthaṁ viditvā tāyaṁ velāyaṁ imaṁ udānaṁ udānesi:

Then, understanding the significance of this, the Blessed One at that time expressed this inspired utterance:

“Imesu kira sajjanti,
eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā;
Antarāva visīdanti,
appatvāva tamogadhan”ti.

“Some ascetics and brahmins, it seems,
are attached to these views;
They sink down midway,
without reaching the firm ground.”

Qualities:

Argumentativeness

Argumentativeness

Disposition or tendency to argue, disagree or engage in contention, often motivated by conceit or attachment to views. It obstructs harmony and feeds quarrels, rivalry, and feuding.

Also known as: bickering, contentiousness, contrariness, quarrelsomeness
Pāli: kalaha, viggaha, vivāda
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Attachment

Attachment

A mental fastening onto people, things, views, or states as “me” or “mine,” unwilling to release them. This clinging can give a sense of security and sweetness.

Also known as: acquisition, bond, clinging, grasping, holding on, possession, entanglement, bound, connected, taking as mine
Pāli: upadhi, upādāna, sakiñcana, mamatta
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Speculation

Speculation

A form of discursive thought that wanders into conjecture and theorizing, disconnected from direct experience. It involves moving from one idea to another through logic and argument, and is often rooted in unwise attention. Speculation can further proliferate into views and opinions.

Also known as: analytical thinking disconnected from direct experience, conjecture, discursive reasoning, theorizing, hypothesis-making, reasoned reflection
Pāli: takka, kappa
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Last updated on March 19, 2026