What sustains the journey between lives? Using the vivid simile of a flame flung by the wind, the Buddha explains the transition of consciousness and the distinction between a being with fuel and one without.

SN 44.9  Kutūhalasālā sutta - The Debating Hall

Atha kho vacchagotto paribbājako yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho vacchagotto paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:

Then, the wanderer Vacchagotta approached the Blessed One. Having drawn near, he exchanged courteous greetings with the Blessed One, and after this friendly exchange, he sat down to one side. As he was seated to one side, the wanderer Vacchagotta said to the Blessed One:

“Purimāni, bho gotama, divasāni purimatarāni sambahulānaṁ nānātitthiyānaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ kutūhalasālāyaṁ sannisinnānaṁ sannipatitānaṁ ayamantarākathā udapādi: ‘ayaṁ kho pūraṇo kassapo saṅghī ceva gaṇī ca gaṇācariyo ca ñāto yasassī titthakaro sādhusammato bahujanassa. Sopi sāvakaṁ abbhatītaṁ kālaṅkataṁ upapattīsu byākaroti: “asu amutra upapanno, asu amutra upapanno”ti. Yopissa sāvako uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto tampi sāvakaṁ abbhatītaṁ kālaṅkataṁ upapattīsu byākaroti: “asu amutra upapanno, asu amutra upapanno”ti.

“Some days ago, sir Gotama, a number of wanderers of various sects, ascetics, and brahmins were seated together in the debating hall, and this conversation arose: ‘This Pūraṇa Kassapa—the leader of an order, the leader of a group, the teacher of a group, the well-known and famous |founder of a sect::founder of a religious order; lit. ford maker [titthakara]|, regarded as holy by many people—declares the rebirth of a disciple who has passed away and died thus: “That one was reborn there, that one was reborn there.” And even regarding a disciple who was a person of the highest kind, a supreme person, one who had reached the ultimate goal, he also declares their rebirth thus: “That one was reborn there, that one was reborn there.”

Ayampi kho makkhali gosālo …pe… ayampi kho nigaṇṭho nāṭaputto …pe… ayampi kho sañcayo belaṭṭhaputto …pe… ayampi kho pakudho kaccāno …pe… ayampi kho ajito kesakambalo saṅghī ceva gaṇī ca gaṇācariyo ca ñāto yasassī titthakaro sādhusammato bahujanassa. Sopi sāvakaṁ abbhatītaṁ kālaṅkataṁ upapattīsu byākaroti: “asu amutra upapanno, asu amutra upapanno”ti. Yopissa sāvako uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto tampi sāvakaṁ abbhatītaṁ kālaṅkataṁ upapattīsu byākaroti: “asu amutra upapanno, asu amutra upapanno”’ti.

This Makkhali Gosāla … This Nigaṇṭha Nāṭaputta … This Sañjaya Belaṭṭhaputta … This Pakudha Kaccāna … This Ajita Kesakambala—the leader of an order, the leader of a group, the teacher of a group, the well-known and famous founder of a sect, regarded as holy by many people—declares the rebirth of a disciple who has passed away and died thus: “That one was reborn there, that one was reborn there.” And even regarding a disciple who was a person of the highest kind, a supreme person, one who had reached the ultimate goal, he also declares their rebirth thus: “That one was reborn there, that one was reborn there.”’

Ayampi kho samaṇo gotamo saṅghī ceva gaṇī ca gaṇācariyo ca ñāto yasassī titthakaro sādhusammato bahujanassa. Sopi sāvakaṁ abbhatītaṁ kālaṅkataṁ upapattīsu byākaroti: ‘asu amutra upapanno, asu amutra upapanno’ti.

This ascetic Gotama—the leader of an order, the leader of a group, the teacher of a group, the well-known and famous founder of a sect, regarded as holy by many people—declares the rebirth of a disciple who has passed away and died thus: ‘That one was reborn there, that one was reborn there.’

Yopissa sāvako uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto tañca sāvakaṁ abbhatītaṁ kālaṅkataṁ upapattīsu na byākaroti: ‘asu amutra upapanno, asu amutra upapanno’ti. Api ca kho naṁ evaṁ byākaroti: ‘acchecchi taṇhaṁ, vivattayi saṁyojanaṁ, sammā mānābhisamayā antamakāsi dukkhassā’ti. Tassa mayhaṁ, bho gotama, ahu deva kaṅkhā, ahu vicikicchā: ‘kathaṁ nāma samaṇassa gotamassa dhammo abhiññeyyo’”ti?

But regarding a disciple who was a person of the highest kind, a supreme person, one who had reached the ultimate goal, when that disciple has passed away and died he does not declare their rebirth thus: ‘That one was reborn there, that one was reborn there.’ Instead, he declares of them: ‘He has cut off |craving::wanting, yearning, longing, attachment, lit. thirst [taṇha]|, uprooted the |fetters::chains, bonds, attachments, thing which binds [saṁyojanā]|, and through the full understanding of |conceit::self-view expressed as comparison—seeing oneself as superior, inferior, or equal; the persistent “I am” conceit (asmimāna) that underlies identification and fuels rebirth [māna]|, he has made an end of |suffering::from intense and painful suffering to the mildest of discontentedness, stress, unsatisfactoriness, dis-ease [dukkha]|.’ So, sir Gotama, |doubt::uncertainty, perplexity, hesitation—especially in relation to faith, truth, or decision-making on the path [kaṅkhā]| arose in me, uncertainty arose in me: ‘How is the |Dhamma::teachings of the Buddha that point to the nature of reality, the ultimate truth [dhamma]| of the ascetic Gotama to be understood?’”

“Alañhi te, vaccha, kaṅkhituṁ, alaṁ vicikicchituṁ. Kaṅkhanīye ca pana te ṭhāne vicikicchā uppannā.

“It is fitting for you to doubt, Vaccha, it is fitting to be uncertain. Doubt has arisen in you about a perplexing matter.

Saupādānassa khvāhaṁ, vaccha, upapattiṁ paññāpemi no anupādānassa. Seyyathāpi, vaccha, aggi saupādāno jalati, no anupādāno; evameva khvāhaṁ, vaccha, saupādānassa upapattiṁ paññāpemi, no anupādānassā”ti.

I declare |rebirth::re-arising, reappearance; lit. going near [upapatti]|, Vaccha, for one |with fuel::having firewood, with attachment, with clinging; lit. with taking near [saupādāna]|, not for one |without fuel::without firewood, without clinging; lit. not taking near [anupādāna]|. Just as a fire burns dependent on fuel, not without fuel, even so, Vaccha, I declare rebirth for one with fuel, not for one without fuel.”

“Yasmiṁ, bho gotama, samaye acci vātena khittā dūrampi gacchati, imassa pana bhavaṁ gotamo kiṁ upādānasmiṁ paññāpetī”ti?

“When, sir Gotama, a flame is flung by the wind and goes a long way, what does sir Gotama declare to be its fuel on that occasion?”

“Yasmiṁ kho, vaccha, samaye acci vātena khittā dūrampi gacchati, tamahaṁ vātūpādānaṁ paññāpemi. Vāto hissa, vaccha, tasmiṁ samaye upādānaṁ hotī”ti.

“When, Vaccha, a flame is flung by the wind and goes a long way, I declare it to be fueled by the wind. For on that occasion, Vaccha, wind is its fuel.”

“Yasmiñca pana, bho gotama, samaye imañca kāyaṁ nikkhipati, satto ca aññataraṁ kāyaṁ anupapanno hoti, imassa pana bhavaṁ gotamo kiṁ upādānasmiṁ paññāpetī”ti?

“And when, sir Gotama, a being has laid down this body but has not yet been reborn in another body, what does sir Gotama declare to be its fuel on that occasion?”

“Yasmiṁ kho, vaccha, samaye imañca kāyaṁ nikkhipati, satto ca aññataraṁ kāyaṁ anupapanno hoti, tamahaṁ taṇhūpādānaṁ vadāmi. Taṇhā hissa, vaccha, tasmiṁ samaye upādānaṁ hotī”ti.

“When, Vaccha, a being has laid down this body but has not yet been reborn in another body, I declare it to be fueled by |craving::wanting, yearning, longing, attachment, lit. thirst [taṇha]|. For on that occasion, Vaccha, craving is its fuel.”

Qualities:

Attachment

Attachment

A mental fastening onto people, things, views, or states as “me” or “mine,” unwilling to release them. This clinging can give a sense of security and sweetness.

Also known as: acquisition, bond, clinging, grasping, holding on, possession, entanglement, bound, connected, taking as mine
Pāli: upadhi, upādāna, sakiñcana, mamatta
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Craving

Craving

A driving ‘thirst’ that reaches out toward experiences, identities, or outcomes as the place to find satisfaction—“if only I had that.” It spins stories of lack, binds the mind to becoming, and invariably leads to suffering.

Also known as: wanting, yearning, longing, lit. thirst
Pāli: taṇha, abhijjhā
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Last updated on February 16, 2026